The Divinity of the Holy Spirit
I normally am challenged on why I believe in the divinity of Jesus but it is fair to ask why I believe in the divinity of the Holy Spirit. Is it not possible that the Spirit is just the non-personal power of God? Well, the Spirit is described in ways that you would not expect of a force: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30 ESV)
The classic passage is: “But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”” (Acts 5:3–4 ESV) It seems here that God and Spirit are used in parallel. By lying to the Spirit, he was lying to God at the same time.
However, that is not the only passage. There are a number of times all three members of the Trinity are used together. “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19 ESV) “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” (2 Corinthians 13:14 ESV) “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.” (1 Corinthians 12:4–6 ESV) All three are used in parallel. The question is why? If the Spirit is just the power of God, why not include one of God’s other attributes as well? What about love or justice or mercy? For some reason, it is the Father God, Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit that always appear together. I accept the trinitarian explanation that all three are persons of the triune God.
“Well, the Spirit is described in ways that you would not expect of a force: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30 ESV)”
What is amazing is what this verse does NOT say!
It does not say “do not greive the holy spirit.” It says :”Do not grieve the holy spirit **OF** God. What is not to be grieved is the holy spirit *OF* God, that spirit that is a part of Him, the spirit that belongs to him! This reminds me of Prov 27:11 which reads “Be wise my son, and make my heart glad.” Is God’s heart a person?
” (Acts 5:3–4 ESV) It seems here that God and Spirit are used in parallel. By lying to the Spirit, he was lying to God at the same time.”
Well lets think about this: to whom did Ananias ACTUALLY LIE? The verse tells us Ananias deposited the money at the feet of the disciples, then Peter rebuked him. So technically he LIED to the apostles, and because they planned to do so ahead of time, they lied to the holy spirit of God, and by extension God himself. Peter was given the gift of knowledge to see what they did. So Peter told him they lied to, not to men, but to God. So if you logic is:
“They lied to the holy spirit, then they lied to God, that makes the holy spirit God,” well they technically lied to the apostles, so by your logic that makes them God as well.
But enough of your twisted reasonings:
At 1Cor 8:12 we read “And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.”
So let’s use YOUR logic at this verse ok?
You tell us “If you lie to the holy spirit you lie to God, therefore the holy spirit is God”
So by your SAME logic:
You tells us: “If we sin against the brothers, we sin against Christ, therefore the brothers are Christ.”
Or is this a case of special pleading?
““The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” (2 Corinthians 13:14 ESV) ”
Funny how this verse works AGAINST the trinity. It is right there in front of your nose and you cant see it can ya?
This verse DISTINGUISHES Jesus and the holy spirit FROM GOD!!
Hello! Your God is a trinity…. So here we have grace from:
Jesus
Holy Spirit
Trinity God
Now you got 5!! If there is ONLY ONE GOD and THAT GOD cannot be divided or separated, then the ONLY GOD that gives GRACE must be none other than the trinity God!
So blinded. See you assume that this verse says “from the FATHER.” And guess what, the one GOD is the Father, not the Father son and holy spirit!
This verse destroys the very foundation of trinitarianism as it distinguishes the Son and the holy spirit FROM GOD!!
Nelson, I am not sure where you want this conversation to go. You are welcome to your beliefs. I have no desire to attack you. I have presented why I believe what I believe. You have presented why you believe what you believe. Neither one of us is going to convince the other. People can read both our posts, read the Bible for themselves, seek God’s wisdom and make up their minds.
Nice reply. Another words, who cares. Truth does not matter. Let people decide for themselves. Sure. Have the truth YOUR way. You should rename this Blog to BURGER KING, and get rid of the 1Pet. 3:15 quote.
Actually, I see no point of arguing with you. You have shown yourself to be antagonistic and interested only in insulting other beliefs. The fact is that we will not be able to take this conversation any further. I have heard your concerns and I will respond to them gradually. But I cannot make debating you a full time job.
Actually, I see no point of arguing with you.
Because you can’t argue your view of the Bible with me, as it runs contrary to what the Bible SAYS. Your logic of Acts 5:3,4 is shown to be special pleading and down right rash when compared with 1Cor. 8:12 . And your use of 2 Cor 13:14 is, well, I am embarrassed for you.
You seem to want to have people seen the ineptness of your theology. Oh well, to each his own I guess.
@ Nelson . . . the reason Trinitarian thought became dominant and decisive in the early church was that the scriptures continually – though not systematically – limit other possibilities while illustrating some kind of equivalent interchangeability between God, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No passages seal the deal, as it were. But over the whole of the Bible, we’re not left with other options. For the equivalents I see a passage like Romans 8:9-11 as a good illustration:
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your Spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.”
You see here that ‘the Spirit’ is used in correlation with God, with Christ, and independently. ‘In us’ is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, and his Spirit. Also, the same passage says that Christ lives in us. Is it Christ that lives in us, or the Spirit of Christ? Or is it the Spirit of God who lives in us? Well, looks like some of these terms can be be rolled around together a little bit. Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ . . . same Spirit. Christ in us, Spirit in us – of Christ or of God . . . same deal. The interchangeability, you’ll note, is not only in terms of adjectives for the Spirit, but between Christ in us or some variation of the Spirit in us. This passage demands, at least, that the Spirit of God is used as a parallel for Christ himself.
Other places in the NT fill out the theological boundaries the early church struggled with. Colossians, for example, states that all the fullness of the deity dwells in Christ in bodily form (stated in both Col 1:19 and 2:9. the Christological description in 1:15-20 further enhance the divinity of Christ where Christ is named as he by and for whom all things were created, as the head of the church, as the firstborn among all the dead “so that in everything he might have the supremacy”. Because Christ was going to have such supremacy, God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him. This relationship as described is suggestive of a situation where two identities – God and Christ – are in fact dwelling as one.
The early church, you see then, had no choice but to set boundaries for what conclusions fit the text – and so the paradoxical nature of Trinitarian thought is a determined means of preserving what the text points to. There is only one God. God, Christ, and the Spirit are identified in different passages as three different beings who operate simultaneously and together. The scripture refers to them with a degree of interchangeability, and the almost fluid shifts hold to no consistent pattern except to say that all three are three and yet somehow one. The conclusion was to coin a phrase that expressed a monotheistic faith which experienced the one God in three persons. God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Further to the divinity of Christ, and the personification of the Holy Spirit, John’s Gospel, especially chaper 14, records foundational teachings.
1. John 14:5-10 When Jesus was asked by Philip to ‘show [them] the father’, jesus answer was not “well you’ll have to wait,” nor was is some direction to a mystical idea. When asked to show the Father, Jesus answered “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?”
2. John 14:15 -18, 26-27; 16:5-11 These paraclete passages demand that the Holy Spirit be understood as a person. Fascinating, look at the first reference: “If you love me, you will obey what I command, and I will ask the Father and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever – the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.”
So does the counselor come? Or does Jesus come? Both according to this passage. Are they the same? No, by 16:7 we’re told that if Jesus does not go, the Spirit will not come, but if he does go, Jesus will send the Spirit. Again, fascinating, because back in 14:26 we’re told that “the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,” will be sent by the father in Jesus name.
In other words, when you look at the whole of the NT – the only way to reconcile all the pieces is to come to a dynamic sense of God’s being. Hebrew scholars often referred to the divine plurality or something that sort. An example is Genesis 1:26 during the creation of humankind where God says “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness . . .” The Christian claim is that this plurality is not merely a reflection of a Hebrew language device which functions as a means of expressing how much more God is in his being than we simple humans are. The Christian claim is that the dynamic God to whom that device points really does exceed our sense of being as a sole limited identity, and is realized in the triune reality of Father, Son and Spirit.
Anyway, not sure if this is useful, or if you’re really up for dialogue . . . if not, that’s fine.
Blessings on you either way.
Bob
LOL – hope my exegesis exceeds my html!!!